>> charlie: welcome to our program. the question tonight, what to do about libya. the debate intensifies and joined by leon wieseltier, ann-marie slaughter and david sanger and look at issues around the world with tina brown, deanna powell and zainab selbi and there's a film about ray kurzweil about the transcend gentleman and we'll look at that at another date and we'll look at libya and women in 2011 coming up next. but this isn't just a hollywood storyline. it's happening every day, all across america.

every time a storefront opens. or the midnight oil is burned. or when someone chases a dream, not just a dollar. they are small business owners. so if you wanna root for a real hero, support small business. shop small. additional funding provided by these funders: captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: it is a decision that every modern american president must face, whether and how to intervene as libya

spirals into a bloody civil war the debate ins tensefide this week and there was a bipartisan support for a no-fly zone with some senators saying the risk of waiting outweigh early action and president obama has emphasized the international support and the white house statement today said the president and british prime minister david cameron will have surveillance, arms embargo and a no-fly zone and joining me is ann-marie slaughter in charge of policy planning at the state department and david sanger of the new york times and from washington, jessica mathews the president of the international peace and leon wieseltier editor of the new republican magazine and pleased to have them today

to talk about washington today. and first to david sanger who wrote in today's new york times that the politics of military invention to speed the ouster of moammar qaddafi grow more complicated by the day. tell me what's going on, david. >> charlie, the president finds himself caught between forces on the right led by senator john mccain who of course ran against him two years ago and senator joe lieberman and others who have argued the president has been two indecisive and has not come down clearly enough on the side of those pushing to topple colone colonel qaddafi and on the left has gotten criticism as well from those who feared he has not moved swiftly enough to prevent a slaughter or has no not indicd

he's willing to act and the senate arms committee believed the u.s. had to show it was full my prepared to step in and showing the prepared to step in and senator kerry said said we failed to act in rwanda and the slowness to react in bosnia and under the first president bush encouraged the shia to do an uprising against saddam hussein and didn't come to their aid as well and there are all kinds of ghosts haunting the error and president obama is very cautious at his core that every time the

united states has gone into intervene in the middle east there's been a long-term consequence to the perception of our position that's been negative. >> charlie: ann marie, tell me what the options are. >> the first best option is a negotiated solution that gets qaddafi and his family out of office and out of the country and that is actually still a possibility on the table. he made an offer, obviously it's hard to know who's saying what but the fact is we've been putting a lot of pressure on him both outside the country in terms of sanctions and in terms of diplomatic pressure and telling him and everybody around him they'll be accountable for this long term. and a lot of what we're been doing is still putting pressure on him to get him out and if we can do that the rebels negotiating with him that's the first best solution. after that i do think we have to

consider a no-fly zone and go to a no-fly zone if we're requested to do that the provisional government and have agreement, certainly if the security council were to agree but if we're requested by the rebel government and the arab league agrees or if the head of the arab league agrees then i think if we don't do it we're going regret it not only morally but strategically. >> charlie: it only comes at the request by the people on the ground in libya. >> yes, i think absolutely and i would just say whatever we do do has to be limited to air i don't think anybody wants to see u.s. troops or nato troops on the ground and if they say we need you to help us defeat a tyrant to establish the government you say you want us to have then i think we can answer and should answer.

>> charlie: leon, what should the president do and why. >> look, i think some of what the president has stipulated as the appropriate conditions for american intervention already exists. david reported today in the times the white house person telling him the president said the best revolutions are organic. it makes them sound a bit like vegetables but if he means indigenous and made by the people, this is a popular uprising that is indigenous and made by the people. the complication comes and this is something we can recognize from the study of history and our personal lives as well is sometimes autonomous people need help and it doesn't compromise the people to help them especially if they're asking for help, which they are and secondly i'm not worried about the united states intervening in a libya civil war.

i don't think there's another civil war. i see a dictator and some of his army and a lot of his paid mercenaries brutall brutally sug a popular democratic up rising and no one is introducing ground forces on the ground and it inhibits the conversation to even say that and they should recognition the provisional government in bengasi and i think we should arm the rebels and deny qaddafi the free use of the skies over libya. if we do those three things both for moral reasons, which i think are obvious. we're talking about helping autonomous people liberate itself from one of the most deranged dictators of modern times and talking about placing the united states in the

forefront of helping peoples, arab peoples, indigenous people, authentic people, use any adjective you want achieve democracy on their own and if we do this i think we'll have done the right thing. >> charlie: jessica, is this the right time for the united states to be on the right side of history? >> i think the right side of history is a different set of activities an would say if we can possibly arrange it to stay out that's the right side of history. in fact, it's probably the most important point that i stink will be said tonight which is the historical significance of what's happening in that arab spring is it's not about us but them. it's not about an ideologicalism or a protest against winner imperialism but it could become a narrative. what it has been about individual dignity and freedom

and a rising up of people who have had enough of incompetent government and the importance of the narrative and the integrity of the narrative is it has nothing to do with anybody outside true i outsid outsid outside tunesia or egypt and there's a no-fly zone and many options. >> charlie: what's the best one? >> the best one is the steady development of an international consensus on how to proceed with explicit involvement of the arab league and other than arming rebels of an arms embargo the last thing this country or

anybody in the region needs is more arms. and serious humanitarian assistance and maybe enforce humanitarian zones and developing a steadily louder international pressure, not against qaddafi, who's not listening but the remnants of regimes around him and i think president obama was exactly right last week when he made the point of those who participate will be held responsible. the message wasn't to qaddafi but to the others. the military intervention and a no-fly zone is an open-ended military intervention that is costly and probably unlikely to

be decisive. >> i disagree ferociously with jessica. >> so do i. >> i think it's a misunderstanding of the situation to see time is of the essence on moral grounds and practica practica practical strategic ground and there's a prior massive disqualifying guilt that would inhibit us from any action. i think jessica's right, the most striking feature of the uprising is to the extent in which they're not anti-american, anti-colonialist and there's a new generation that are interested in democracy and for democracy pure and simple. it seems to me that and more over, they identify with the president. they look to the president for support. they did in tehran and cairo and

doing so now in the desert of libya and it would be crushing to them, unfair to them but also against our larger sense of our historical role if we were not very quickly forthcoming with unequivocal practical and unambiguous support. >>i agree with leon. jessica's right to focus on the narrative but we have a chance to change the narrative fundamentally. the narrative in the middle east for decades has been against the united states even governments friendly to us whipping up popular support against us in terms of our support for israel. it's been constantly deflected from the real issues of decent governments that proside for their citizens. now we suddenly is a narrative that isn't indigenous narrative led by young people saying it is time to claim our right to join

the rest of the world and get decent governments and we the united states have been talking about that for decades and not just before this administration. president obama went to ch cair called for a new beginning of the muslim world and part of that was democracy. secretary clinton talked about regime crumbling in the sand and here we have the chance to change our own position in the region and stand up to the world we believe in, if we don't do it we're making a complet making a own words and will see pictures that will equal rwanda. >> it's not taking a military action but developing a political consensus to move and it's not about us. >> not if people who we support and should support are being

slaughtered. >> there are lots of people throwing around the world slaughter. i defy you to tell me how many people have been killed in libya because nobody knows. >> the opposition is giving numb of like 200-250,000. i understand the situation is murky but i have to say when it comes no this sort of emergency it seems in most important polly cases and crisis it's right to reserve military force for a last resort and abide by the standard canogagal rules and there are certain emergency it's you don't ask forcefully in the beginning you misunderstand the nature of the crisis and emergency. we made that mistake in bosnia and stopped it at the tail end. >> ann-marie discussed the

narrative the uprises bring about and it's central to the thinking you hear when you talk to people in the house and in ann marie's old haunt in the state department these days that the uuprising provide an alternate narrative to al-qaida and an alternative narrative to the position that iran's mullahs have taken that were initially hoping they were islamic in nature and what the whole debate is circling around is if the united states inserts itself into this in any military way does that interrupt or change the narrative or support it and that's all becaused on something that none of us can pr predict

which is what happens after qaddafi falls. if the u.s. becomes involved it will bear some responsibility, rightly or wrongly for what follows and if it does not it will be a situation like egypt where it will be up to the egyptians work out and that's what makes everybody in the government so nervous. there are happy outcomes of this and north korea and philippines and iran. a place where a revolution began in 1979 that many thought would be turn out to be a more democratic kind of government and for the first year looked like something we could work with and the last 30 -- >> david, wouldn't it be the case though if the united states failed to intervene and terrible things happen and qaddafi in some way survived that we would bear responsibility for that outcome also? when you're the united states of america, you bear responsibility

abroad for regardless of what you do because of the enormous power we have to affect situations. i don't think that -- whatever we do our failure to have act order having acted wrongly will make us a part of this story. i would add, i think davids a right even make the point more dramatically i think the uprisings in the arab world are for strategically and morally the single most exciting development for the united states since the collapse of communism in the eastern europe and the soviet union and nothing has equalled the potential for transformation of populations of regions. >> something we agree on. and that's the reason to stay out of it. >> how could we not. >> that's the reason to stay out. it's too important for us to stay out of. >> it's perfectly imaginable

that we -- >> there is an opposition government. >> as much as there is in any situation where very to choose to recognize there's a constituted council in the lead city. obviously in any situation like this you can't sit down and hold an election but it is -- they are calling for us not to put in ground troops but to block qaddafi's major ability to attack them from the air and today he used his air force very powerfully but there's no reason why we can't put in the no-fly zone when qaddafi goes it's then over and then up to the libyans to complete their revolution. when we got help from the french in our own revolution but they didn't own it, it was ours, we just got help when we needed it. >> i think of all the recent historical examples you can't

find one where you can say well we'll go in and just do this and walk away. >> what about bosnia. >> let me just finish, okay. military power has not been decisive in this struggle back and forth so far. it could conceivably be that but hasn't so far and you'd have to ask the question and you'd have to ask it anyway, suppose we do this and it doesn't change the outcome. yet we're undertaking a military intervention -- >> it's one we've taken in countless areas including iraq. >> with very bad outcome. with terrible outcome. >> not with the kurds that's not true at all we protected the

kurds with the no-fly zone for a long time and it's very effective. >> i what heard in washington is no-fly zone would require us to take out libyan aircraft battery and the assumption in work that if we do that it's god forbid a military operation and then on the road to all the other military operations i don't believe that's the case. i don't believe that's the case. >> nothing could be more irresponsible than to start something and not ask yourself the question about the next step. nothing. >> the overthrow of qaddafi and his replacement by what we know of this provisional council -- >> we know nothing. >> we know a lot more than nothing and the overthrow of qaddafi and the replacement by this provisional council seems like a net gain for the country, the region, for us. i don't see how won could begin

to imagine. >> there's a whole set of military issues that you can't answer which are the next step, next step, next step and the yif relevance of air power to this struggle and the other has to do with the point i've raised at the beginning which is where we ought to be listening to is not the conversation in the white house or the state department but the conversation in the region is clear including libya and libyans have been we may wish the narrative were not here's the dirty western imperialist comes again but that's the narrative they've been fed and which many fwloef start with so it would be an extremely story to tell. >> they said they do not want american ground troops. no serious policymakers --

they've also said they would like our help in leveling the playing field. the reason the military means have been indecisive is because the power between qaddafi's regime and the rebels fighting. >> no, it's because they don't have a functional air force and in part i would guess he doesn't want to lose because of the warning. >> david, what happened if you did a no-fly zone and in the end it didn't change the balance of power, that today, as jessica pointed out, there was a fair use of air power and until now and the last weekend the qaddafi forces made endroads without the air and if you use this and it's not effective how much are you

committed to your next set of steps and that's the slippery slope you heard setting gates warning against during his testimony last week and i think that's also particularly where he's president obama and also the reason that everybody in the u.s. government i've spoken to wants significant political cover for whatever is done whether that's a u.n. security council resolution or the arab league as ann-marie suggested or the african union or nato vote. >> wouldn't it be the case if the u.s. wanted the political cover they can go get it. george w. bush did this with kuwait and bosnia. if the president of the united states is determined to intervene in the situation the way some of us have been advocating and provides the

political cover it's a road for american diplomacy. >> charlie: if you help them at their request, will the reaction in the region be there goes the united states again or will it be thank god the united states saw the opportunity to be on the side of right and did the right thing at the right moment this time? >> i think it's going to be the second. i think we're seeing signs in many many ways that where we didn't act quickly in egypt to support the protestors they knew it immediately and when we did act they were glad though they thought it was late. in bahrain we get reports the protesters are worried we're not supporting them. this is a completely connected younger generation that david or leon said actually often takes president obama as a symbol of the kind of thing they think

they ought to be able to have and if it's a slippery slope, it's a short slippery slope because no one is talking about or can imagine troops on the ground and you arm the rebels as best you can. it's hard to imagine going beyond that. jessica is right i think to say you have to ask what will happen next. absolutely you have to do that but you can't always get all the answers. we would not have known the end game in rwanda if we had sent troops in and yet i don't think anybody thinks now it wouldn't have been the right thing to do. >> charlie: let me ask one question because you were in the government should the united states have spoken out more strongly at the time of the huge massive demonstrations against the iranian election?

>> what was wrong with the iran policy it had been his position that we had not engaged. so he was trying to engage. he was not getting very far but it was in that context that the protests happened and initially there was the sense that we didn't want to interfere for exactly the reasons that jessica is saying. i think in retrospect we would have been better off taking a stronger position but i also think iran is a different context in which the regime has been able to turn that immediately to advantage when anytime the u.s. seems to intervene they turn that to their advantage in a way i do not think qaddafi possibly can. >> charlie: jessica, what circumstances may change your mind on the ground.

>> you can't undertake a military intervention which is what a no-fly zone is and saying you're drawing a line for troops on the ground and nobody could possibly imagine troops on the ground. i can tell you nobody imagined ten years ago we'd be fighting a war today in afghanistan. i can tell you nobody imagined it because i can remember being on the show and debating that intein the intervention. this is colin powell's, one you break it you own it. we didn't break it but once you intervene you're involved and then in to really tough in fact problemly the toughest nation-building operation we would have ever confronted

because this is a country where there really is nothing much except qaddafi but i would go further and this is an attempt to answer your question and that's that the historical significance of what's happening across the arab world right now is in direct proportion to what we're not involved. the pride of the egyptians of what happened and the meaning of what happened in egypt across the region has the fact that it was egyptian and nothing to do with us, virtually nothing. so i think our debate has become much too much about us and this is not about us. it really is not about us. it's not about us. it should be about them. it should be about them reclaiming their futures and what we've got to do is keep this discussion from being about

the united states. it's not. >> no one could possibly mistake the revolution in tunisia and cairo and what happens in libya and iran in 2009 or anything that was ginned up by the. we're passed that. the people in iraq the people on the streets -- we have no evidence whatsoever the people on the streets of teheran or cairo want the anything but their support. there is anecdotal evidence aplenty from all the areas. they do not want american ground invasions or imperialism. but helping them does not compromise their autonomy or make them stooges of the united states if we come to the assistance of the popular

democratic movement in the arab world. these are empirical questions we have evidence. >> that's not a question of empirical. >> i read the same things and heard the same reports from all the cities and uprising you did. >> are you listening to al jaz jazeera reported th reported th union and arab league have a no-fly zone anded the in the end this is their revolution but if they need help we should give them help to achieve the goals that they and we want. >> charlie: so david, what's the time frame and how is he viewing this and i close with this as a

decision in parody. >> i think this is closed in on the white house a whole lot faster than they would like it to. they're clearly trying to set up thursday's meeting of the nato defense ministers as a place that would set the conditions for a no-fly zone and perhaps put more equipment in place and yesterday they announced, for example, that surveillance flights were moving to 24-7. i was a little surprised they weren't already but had only been doing surveillance about ten hours a day. in the end while this is a fascinating ideological argument and about nation building or argument about when the united states has moved passed the ghost of the iraq intervention which was eight years ago next week. i think what will decide it in the end is whether or not

colonel qaddafi uses his jets in a serious way to push back and crush the rebels and i think if there were more days like today where he was using the jets more effectively i think the pressure on the white house to approve a no-fly zone despite all the reservations you heard is probably going to become somewhat overwhelming. >> charlie: thank you all very much. today marks the 100 anniversary of women's game createed to honor working conditions for women and there is still a long way to go. joining me tonight, three remarkable women, dina powell at goldman sachs and behind the firm's initiative to help women

with small businesses and management examination and zainab selbi and the organization helps survivors of war rebuild their lives and tina brown, editor and chief of the daily beast and news beat and hold a second summit next week. it will bring together female leaders from all walks of life and the world. here's a look at last year's conference. >> the rights of women after the 21st century, what civil rights were to the 20th century. >> this will be an amazing opportunity for all of us to learn through the powerful stories of women and some of the men working on some of the most serious challenges of the century. >> they did not expect a short woman not up uniform walking the prisons i think the message was this is a new way of life. >> for every place where women's

lives have improved there are still too many where there has not been that progress. >> when we come together as a community and support each other it's amazing the things we can do. >> the said the name of our call to action is, let us unite and decide. >> it's amazing when women come together and share their experiences and stories the kind of energy and connection that comes out. >> empowering women really is the key to piece, prosperity and progress. >> charlie: remarkable. i'm pleased to have tina brown, dina powell and zainab selbi to walk about the women's issues around the world. first about the summit, tell me what you hope it accomplishes. >> we're bringing together 300 amazing women from all over the world. . activists from egypt, iran,

somalia and senegal, all these different places where women are really breaking through and making themselves heard and when you get a group like that together and mix them with the great magnifiers like melinda gates or condi rice something happens and an immense connection is forged and there was an energy that is carrying us to the second year. >> charlie: do you have an agenda? >> it's to amplify the movement for women and we're seeing it played out on the tv screens with the enormous shakeup in the arab world is women must be part of the process because where women are involved the countries do better and they become less

stagnant and less dangerous. they become places which can move into the modern world and that's now become a security issue as well as a human rights issue. >> charlie: and you can clearly see it from the revolution across the middle east women are taking a lead role. >> indeed. it's not the first time that women are taking the lead role in active demonstrations. what's different this time is usually in the past they take a lead role and told to go back home after the change happens and this time they're saying we're not going home. in against, for example, no woman was assigned in the constitution committee. the women were in the streets with the men and today women were out in the streets demonstrating saying we need to be included in the decision-make make of the future of egypt.

today women ask for women all over the world to echo the plight of their women where in afghanistan we're worried about it and will it include women at the decision-making table. this time they took the public space and now saying it's not enough. we need to be included at the decision making table. 100 years ago when women started women's days they were asking for voting rights, working rights and vocational skills and participation in the decision-making table. much has been accomplished as you said but i find it ironic here we are 100 years later and what i do at women international is teach women vocational skills to get jobs where they still don't get paid equally and perhaps we have voting rights but we are still not included at

the decision-making table. only 2.2 peace agreements are signed by women. we accomplished a lot but we need to accomplish more. >> charlie: you and your husband formed international women's day. >> former husband. >> charlie: what did you see that needed to be accomplished. >> it was in response to the war in bosnia. there were rape camps and women were giving numbers and when they were giv given numbers and called to a room and got gang raped and i just came from congo where about 100 women get raped every month still. so still the violence against women has not been reduced from the early 90s in bosnia or right now. and what we try to do is ask every woman to join us by

sponsoring one woman at a time and sending letters and pictures. we call it building bridges between women from different countries. i was in iraq a few months ago and a woman said i pray for my american sister who is saving me and that's what i call building bridges. >> charlie: and 10,000 women. you had a distinguished career in government and came to goldman sachs and engaged in corporate engagement and started 10,000 women. what is it? >> this is the largest investment in the economic empowerment of women globally and it was based on data that we saw. economic data that if you are really interested in growing gdp growth a smart investment is to make sure half the society is

involved in the group and we talked about the national security implications of women being part of the society and a huge economic imperative if we want to create more jobs and ensure economic stability women are a smart investment and in small and medium sized enterprise owners create jobs and growth and now in 22 countries and working with zainab and they're outshining the men as entrepreneurs. >> charlie: no surprise in. what's the score card? >> i think we are focussing at our summit more on people who have solutions and are coming to tell us about their successes and they're speak on the behalf of a huge amount of women and

that's a stunning fact that 42% of egyptian women are i will literate and when you get that it's shocking to realize that you think progress is being made there isn't a rate of progress. i think domestic violence is one of the biggest issues and always has been in emerging countries like women in afghanistan live with incredible acceptance of domestic violence and that has to be changed when women are being terrorized they can't do anything productive. >> charlie: what you hope that comes out of this is some sense of addressing the issue and putting the spotlight on it and hearing what people can do working together in privately or publicly or partnerships. >> when we show the women and hearing from them, letting them connect with them they feel so much more arous arouse them bec

once you hear people's individual stories, last year at the conference, for instance, a woman came and has had a mobilization in senegal for preaching and showing and educating people in all the villages around in senegal about female gentle cutting which is a barbaric thing that's happened to women and brought with her a woman that spoke through a translator and she talked about how she'd first had one 14-year-old daughter had died and then the other after toxic effects and everyone in the audience was in tears and so many women said i want to donate money to this and help in any way i can and american women can do a great deal by bringing their spotlight and energy and

publicity and their lobbying powers to help women in other countries to have a life. >> charlie: how about this woman on the cover of your magazine. what has she done because she said i think women's issues are at the top. >> hilary has always spoken out about this and one thing that mystified me in her presidential campaign that she kept quiet about the thing that was the most, i think, appealing thing about her which is always has spoken up for women without a voice and when she was first laid lady she did and she would always meet with womens groups and now really feeling it's her moment because her conviction is connecting her with world events unless women are part of the process you'll have no economic development and no security.

her conviction is dove tailing with this moment in history and i think she's playing an important role like in yemen when our reporter went with her before the revolution began in all these places and saw how went to a townhall and encouraged women to talk about their rights and after words they all crowded around her and said help us, help us to educate our people about the custom of child bribes. we have to stop our girls from the marital bribe and doesn't want to get in trouble and that's the problem is helping them without the blow back which is the soft power issue. >> i think the fact that women are disproportio disproportiona

by decisions and you have 2.2% of decision makers in peace agreements are women and 18% of political representation in women and one out of four women in the world is abused. there's a global aspect of women so much discriminated the extremity of which is more in afghanistan and congo and much less in america and there are still domestic via domestic viod there's a global issue that we are -- and this is the manifestation of a new women's movement. a global women's movement. we use social media to connect. we use different forms of media to connect and how do we strategize together. afghan women are asking for a pledge and ask the help of american women, not to defend afghan women but ensure they are

at the negotiating table as a discussion with the taliban and reconciliation and the discussion of control but actually we cannot accomplish sustainable peace if women are not part of it. i find it amazing the only ones not killing, burning and raping and invested in keeping life going and in their families, 90% of women spend 90% of their income are not included in the negotiation table and the evolution is how we support each other in demanding ways and sometimes demanding our sisters get to the negotiation table. >> and sometimes finding sneaky ways to get to the tables and we have a program at the american university in afghanistan and in partnership with angel cabrera school of management in arizona when we first looked to invest

in afghanistan and they said can we really find women that are entrepreneurs that are safe enough and 120 women have gone through the program and it's amazing what they're accomplished one woman goes through the most conservative provinces in afghanistan and takes handy crafts and sells them and returns the proceeds. one lived in a conservative province and returned to give thei her the money she made and she said my husband has never respected me but recently he asked if we should send our three daughters to school and i said to him, you know, there's such a burden on you and you'll have to work so hard for the dowry. make them go to school and they can support you and he said we will force them go to school and

that woman that will never read or write has three little girls in school. she used her moment of power wisely and that came when she was economically empowered an in department end and gave her the voice she used so we have to be savvy how it respectfully work in cntry and bring media, non-profit and public together and this could be the moment we look back to and say things changed. >> charlie: meaning the moment in this year, the moment in this -- >> in this movement. i think this could be a tipping point movement when you have business leader like lloyd blankfein and non-profit leaders coming together and realizing we have a solution to the global challenges. it is in the form of women being empowered around the world. >> we have data that proves the connection thanks to goldman

sachs and so many others that shows the growth of the national economy anded the connection of women and we have data. it's about the most efficient investment. i just came from congo and within one year of training women in business skills they're doubling their in come and moving from 55 cents a day to $1.33 a day. one year of investment and going above poverty by giving them -- >> and reframing the discussion of being one of achievement instead of being a bleeding hearts issue. now that it engaging men because in the end without the engagement of men nothing good is going to happen to women and the engagement of men is reframing this as this person is

now a bread winner and treat them right. >> charlie: it's a win-win for men. >> in afghanistan they trained religious clerks then training comes from if you want to be a popular leader in congo, actually the mayor and the chief and the military commander, if you want to be a popular leader you have to understand what 55% of your community is asking for. busy moms we help them write their sermons about the rights and reaching in the mosque it's time to give women economic opportunities. so change is absolutely possible. we need to create dialog with men. the economic development helps a lot because it has to do with lifting the whole family and partner more. i love to think we're living in a world where the public sector is dealing more with the private

sector and i believe in the possibilities of change. >> charlie: what would you have each government around the world whatever the nature of the government is do. >> rwanda is a good one. >> charlie: put, for example, some issues in terms of change within your country. >> rwanda is a good example, and president kagahi really invested women and brought women up whenever you asked him, why did you do that he said there is no way i can rebuild my country that witnessed the works acts of inhumanities without investing in women and bringing them into the limelight. so 18 years later you have 53% of the rwandan cabinet are women

and have a-a real investment and women and rwanda 18 years later one of the cleanest countries in africa and one of the biggest economic growth and prosperity and a good example where there was gender budgeting and everybody asked where is your investment in women. >> charlie: this is the first newses in week out under your tutelage and newsweek and the daily beast. you said you wanted to be, i love this, seductive and serious. >> it means you have to get them in. have you to get them into the tent. that's what needs to happen. it's one of the most important things you can do is to seduce people into reading what i have to say and we have to do things that presented it in a seductive way. >> charlie: compelling to read the next paragraph. >> everything is the window of

attention. >> charlie: you built a career in magazines and left with a sense the day is number and now came back to the daily beast and now this. >> after doing the daily beast and the excitement is a fantastic form and amazing. it's also though can coexist in a good way and this week we have this incredible portfolio of women which has a luxurious stories and looking at them slower and online we have an immense gallery of women where you can scroll over this wonderfully interactive things and people love to operate in different keys. sometimes they're in the mood for something that's for the contemplative and the spacetown the news where you want

something explained and want something that interprets and the online medium is very much about the hot the breaking news and i think the two rhythms work well together actually. >> charlie: thank you for coming. the women's summit, second annual women summit and tina brown coming to new york to tell their story and further move the again for women ahead in this century. deanna powell and so many involvements she had and someone's who's been on the ground and founded women for women international. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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